Comments

Comment by 131377

This sword looks like a really cool shark or see monster. it would be best used mage or a lock, but i would get it for my holy pally because of the crit and haste,but the lack of MP5 might be why a mage lock would need this more then you. also i think this might be the second healing sword ever. Grieving Spellblade was the first =(

Comment by 109382

so far my favorite model in the game, this is ausome

Comment by 220809

Nice looking item. Bet it will be a 5-15 drop chance on the boss.

Comment by Astygia

Interesting arrangement of stat buffing on this one...

Comment by Mordemox

I have this sword, and it drops in 25 naxx. I can't remember which boss though, because we were using the Melee bug to 1 shot bosses before it was hotfixed. We were cruising, and just Needing and Greeding on loot left and right.

Comment by 223447

The tooth brush looking part of the blade really doesn't look like it belongs there at all.

Comment by 256973

Just put my hands on one of these.Amazing sword meant for casters not healing paladins. They've got maces for healing.

Comment by 214327

Thats absolutely bias paladins CAN equip swords an they DO stack all the stats on this one. No mp5 does NOT matter to a good holy palys wep.

Comment by 128019

It's a Mage/Warlock weapon, roll on maces if you're a healer. We can't use the millions of maces that are available.

Comment by ameretto

considering there are other maces with the equivalent amount of spellpower that drop in naxx and eye if a holy pally rolled on this sword it would only serve to discourage every mage / warlock that was in the same raid

Hammer of the Astral Plane Kel'Thezud
The Impossible Dream Loetheb, Gluth
Infection Repulser Grobbulus, Gluth

Or Eye of Eternity
Ice Spire Scepter Alexstraza

Comment by 26387

A lesser version (little brother) of The Turning Tide. 59 less spell power, less haste, slightly more crit. Full comparison here.

This arguably has a cooler model though. Looks really good on my Warlock. :)

Comment by Lightrain

This is not just a pally weapon. This also has mage and warlock written all over it.

This is unfortunate, because that is a sexy sword that I would love to have on my pally, but having 2 mages, and 2 warlocks along with 3 holy pallies in the guild, I will probably not get it this time around assuming we can down this boss.

Comment by Reeve

I got it tonight (holy paladin).

As it's been said, this weapon is amazing for Holy paladins (3rd Best-In-Slot).

1st and 2nd BiS belong to The Turning Tide and Torch of Holy Fire (respectively). Holy paladins should itemize for spell haste + crit + spell power. MP5 isn't as useful as the aforementioned. It just so happens to be that most of the spell power swords in Naxx carry this itemization contrary to maces.

I will say I love this change. I've used maces to heal for the last 2 years, using swords is awesome. ;-)

Comment by Sokuke

I guess it's Blizzrd's response to this Wraith Strike

Slightly more crit but less haste.

Comment by Pipolla

You're not really seeing the point of this are you? By taking the Titansteel Guardian (with post-nerf stats) over this i will gain:

16 Stamina

Whereas if i were using Life and Death, i would gain over Titansteel Guardian:

~~+4 Spellpower - +14 with Holy Guidance~~
44 Intellect - 50.2 with Divine Intellect
13 Crit Rating - .59% crit (.31 from Int, .28% from rating.)

As you can see this Sword is much more appealing than the Titansteel Guardian, and i wouldn't pass up a roll on this just so Mages and Warlocks have less competition for weapons. :)

Edits - Added Int, Crit and Sp gains from Talents, feel free to correct my math, i have a terrible hangover. :)
Edit 2 - Upadate post a little, original post has been purged/deleted, was a post asking why don't pallys just settle on Titansteel Guardian.

Comment by 284223

I would never deny that this is in fact, a great weapon for healadins and that they are entitled to roll on it. And while there is a valid argument that other weapons cause a loss of one particular stat or another, there are as many 7 items that a healidin can equip to give comparable to semi-comparable stats (please note I did say comparable, not equivilent). No class is more entitled to this over another. That is to say if a healidin were to roll against me (a mage) I would not be upset. If this were The Turning Tide, I would absolutely say that healidins should roll, it's by far the best item out there for them at this time. But, considering this is the second best caster weapon in game right now and I believe the fourth best healidin weapon in game, it would be nice to see healidins pass this over to a caster in the group.

Items that are comparable to this for healidins.
Torch of Fire (+19 Haste, +59 SP, +15 Mp5, -42 Crit, -6 Stam, +5 Int)
The Turning Tide (+19 Haste, -5 Crit, +59 SP, -6 Stam, +6 Int)
Hammer of the Astral Plane (+2 Haste, -5 Stam)
Life and Death (Item at hand)
The Impossible Dream (-29 Haste, -5 Stam, +31 Spirit)
Titansteel Guardian (+29 SP, -13 Crit, -29 Haste, +16 Stam, -44 Int)
Ice Spire Scepter (+9 Haste, -42 Crit, -4 Stam, +3 Int, +25 Spirit)

Top 6 caster weapons (for arguements sake)
The Turning Tide (See above)
Life and Death (Item at hand)
Haunting Call (-2 Stam, -3 Int, +42 Spirit, -42 Crit, -29 Haste, +45 Hit)
The Soulblade (-3 Stam, +42 Spirit, -42 Crit, -29 Haste, +30 Hit)
Blade of Dormant Memories (-11 Stam, -6 Int, -2 Crit, -2 Haste, -53 SP)
Grieving Spellblade (-9 Stam, -4 Int, -5 Crit, -2 Haste, -53 SP)

Given spirit is pretty much a complete waste for mages and healidins (locks can now gain SP from spirit, so it doesn't apply to them), the primary stats for healidin items tend to be much more comparable then those of caster items. Hit is an arguable counter-stat, in that it might be needed by the caster. In most cases however, if the caster is this far into raiding, hit should not be an issue (in my opinion). A mage would lose either both crit and haste for hit, or take a major SP drop to get the other stats even close to those of Life and Death. Like I said before, I would not be mad if a healidin rolled against me on this, I would just hope that they took into consideration the immense improvement this blade yields for a caster before doing so.

Comment by jaxsonbateman

You haven't considered two things:

1. A lot of the weapons you listed for the healadin side of things aren't what I'd call comparable. I'd consider them 'upgrades' only if you were in something along the lines of a lv 80 blue. For example, the Impossible Dream is just terrible for a paladin. So is the Ice Scepter Shard. The only reason ToHF isn't terrible is because of the big SP jump over iLv 213 items, but then, if a paladin took it over the other healing classes I'd be very surprised. The four on the list which are perfect for a paladin are Titansteel Guardian, Life and Death, Hammer of the Astral Plane and The Turning Tide. Titansteel Guardian is only iLv 200, and the Turning Tide is BIS for mages, locks and healadins. Essentially, the only two comparable items for a paladin are Life and Death and Hammer of the Astral Plane.

2. Casters can also use staves. I haven't played a raiding caster before, but from my understanding in most cases staves are inferior to a MH/OH combination. However, the possibility still exists. Paladins don't even have the choice.

Basically, I'd say that the number of 'alternate options' for both pallies and locks is fairly even when you take into consideration what stats on each item the particular class and spec would find useful. I don't think any mage or lock should get upset if a paladin takes this over them, as unless there's virtually no chance that this won't be a significant upgrade for them (the only perfectly itemised pally weapon to come before this is Titansteel Guardian, which only has 4 stats (less spread stats making it have a lower amount) and is iLv 200 (as opposed to 213). Technically you could get Hammer of the Astral Plane *before* this, but the HotAP is better than LaD, so no paladin should 'downgrade' to it).

In short: these arguments over weaps really need to stop. There's no item in T7 content that I'm aware of that should be prioritised to one class due to lack of alternate options. If we get to Ulduar and there's only one decent SP sword for mages, locks and healadins, and 10 decent SP maces for healadins, we'll worry about it then. ^_^

Comment by 235884

Healadin View on Weapon Order

I personally would argue that this is the SECOND best holy paladin weapon in the game. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so I am going to write this from the point of a decently geared 25 man Holy Paladin.

Here was your order:

Torch of Fire (+19 Haste, +59 SP, +15 Mp5, -42 Crit, -6 Stam, +5 Int)
The Turning Tide (+19 Haste, -5 Crit, +59 SP, -6 Stam, +6 Int)
Hammer of the Astral Plane (+2 Haste, -5 Stam)
Life and Death (Item at hand)

I am purposefully excluding weapons I believe are terrible healadin choices at this stage of the game. While the other weapons you listed are not bad per se, they do not even come close when comparing these 4 weapons with one another.

The correct order imo should be:

The Turning Tide (+19 Haste, -5 Crit, +59 SP, -6 Stam, +6 Int)
Life and Death
Hammer of the Astral Plane (+2 Haste, -5 Stam)
Torch of Fire (+19 Haste, +59 SP, +15 Mp5, -42 Crit, -6 Stam, +5 Int)

**If your Spellpower is very low then obviously Torch of Fire will move up considerably, but if you have OVER 2K spellpower then this order seems better to me.

Vs. The Turning Tide
This is the lesser version of this weap so obviously it is inferior.

Vs. Hammer of the Astral Plane
Personally I see 5 stam as a better deal then 2 haste if I had to pick. 2 Haste is not even .1% speed increase which means when you really boil it down and consider human error, etc you will notice NO difference whatsoever between this weapon's HPS over a fight and the Hammer of the Astral Plane. Conversely a few more hit points during a bad pull CAN potentially make a difference. I realize that the differences between these 2 weaps are so marginal that they are nearly identical, but IF I had the choice of one or the other I would opt for Life and Death over the Hammer.

Vs. Torch of Fire
Ok, so some people may be wondering why on earth I would rank Torch of Fire BELOW the swords and Hammer. If you disagree with me that's your opinion, but I am looking at this STRICTLY from a HPS point of view. 1% crit is ultimately give you back alot more then 15 mp5 and personally seeing as how its impossible to chain 1.5 second Holy Light's together back to back for any amount of time without going OOM (i.e. Patchwerk, one of the most HL intensive fights in the game and you are still spacing 1s or so lag time between casts to keep from going OOM) the slight speed increase isn't going to make a huge difference. Additionally, if you don't have so much haste from other gear to make up for that slight loss at this point you are doing it wrong. Even if I was trying to avoid haste at this stage of the game I should still have a huge stack of it as it's on everything. Ok, and for the final stat: +healing. Yes Torch of Fire has alot of +healing, but let's be fair, how much difference are your heals going to make from an upgrade of say +2050 to say +2110 if you LOSE 1% of your crit. Ultimately the +crit weighted weapon will overtake the +healing weighted weapon in a fight where the difference will become a serious issue. Due to this fact I personally believe the 3 crit weapons at this point in the game are ALL superior to the Torch of Fire. Let the priests, druids, shammies, w/e roll on this one. The loss of nearly 1% crit is just too hard to make up for as at that level of +healing the crit is more important then a slight +healing increase.

I am a Holy Paladin and was fortunate enough to roll on this weapon and win. It was a HUGE upgrade over my previous weapon to what I consider 2nd best in slot in the game.

That said, I am not going to argue by any means it is not a good caster weapon. I believe that this is the 2nd BiS weapon in game for both casters AND healadins. I also agree with a few other people also about this that it was possibly Blizzards way of moving rolls to SWORDS: Locks, Mages, Paladins and MACES: Priests, Shamans, Druids. Ultimately this does seem like a fair compromise for rolling as the amount of Holy Pallies in a raid is generally not that high (at least in all my guilds there are usually only 1-2 per 25-mans). I also would not be upset at all if I lost to a caster on this as I understand the upgrades that this weapon provides for both of us are equally good.

Comment by 248849

Very cool looking sword. Kind of a shame there isn't a melee sword with a skin so good but still. Mages and locks in my guild were salivating over it when I linked it.

Comment by 168858

Is it just me or this weapon brings a fish to your mind aswell ?

Comment by 304343

I dont mind paladins needing that. But.. what most crying people fail to see is: unlike the mace from heroic Nexus and the craftable one, those swords (and daggers) from Naxx are the first upgrade for mages/locks from Flameheart Spell Scalpel .

So ask yourself who need to get such item first?

Comment by williambob

I'm a raid leader and a mage, and if a caster tried to pull some BS about holy pallies not getting a shot a this equally with mages and locks they would laughed out of my raid.

Comment by 235651

Life AND Death, its can be used to make life(healing) it can be used for death(DPS)
Any caster, healer or DPS that can use a sword....is who this sword is for.

Comment by 235605

Does anyone know i it is a graphics glitch that this iem has a transparent rectangular shape degrading from its otherwise beauty? It's very distracting when you first get the weapon, and it also appears in the 3D model viewer on this site. Anyone have eedback on this?

Comment by 319611

It is not acceptable for paladins to take it over casters because we can't take maces. Why should you be able to take our gear when we can't take yours?

It's the same reason why paladins shouldn't take mail from resto shamans. Sure both benefit each class the same, but one class is restricted solely to the item type.

You have your own gear to take... and this isn't it.

And no we can't take a staff or dagger instead, there are non on par that drop from bosses in 25 naxx.

Comment by 300134

*blah blah bah spewing random fact to prove a point* fact is, it doesnt have mp5 for healers, and doesnt have hit for other casters. So this weapon is bicurious. Still, having a mage main, i would be mad if a healer won it over me, cause that would shoot my deeps up

Comment by Kangi

Its name is appropriate to the Gothik fight (where you get this sword from) itself, in which there are the living (life) and dead (death) sides.

Comment by 336121

this weapon is in my point of view (a fairly good 25 man geared holy paladin) a big upgrade.

iam a holy paladin stacking Crit and Haste, this weapon is almost perfect for it.
mages and locks who wine about ''they should get this sword above paladins becouse we can use maces'' clearly have to look further into the paladin needs.(not saying paladins should get this first, just saying we all should be able to roll for it)
i think most paladins would even prefer this over the Torch of Fire since a good geared holy paladin with enough crit don't need MP/5 att all.
so mages and warlocks expect some more competiton on this weapon.

Comment by 251077

Why does this description state it is a vendor sold item for a little over 104G? What vendor sells this? I thought it was only available from Gothik the Harvester in 25-Man Heroic Naxxramus.

Comment by 340811

As a healer paladin, (not geared for naxx25 though) I will roll on this or any sword that has Intellect, crit raiting, haste raiting and Spell power if it is upgrade to what I have as weapon on that time. Why I would roll sword that has out cluding hit raiting and spirit all good caster stats? There are 4 reasons for that:

1. I dont see point of not rolling weapon that is better than what I use at that point and possibly cause wipe after wipe just because mage or warlock wants that sword. C'mon! you want that sword, roll for it instead of whining about healadins needing weapon, that has spell power, haste raiting, crit raiting and intellect but no mp/5. (yes you make complaining sound that odd)

2. When I'm questing dailies, I would also like to hit with my weapon, not just cast holy shock etc. (yes, sword skill is only weapon skill I can hit with)

3. I hate the look of maces, imagine Paladin riding up hill with his/her shining armor, raising a sword :P

4.Life and Death seemes to be second best healing AND caster sword The Turning Tide being best. Just because paladins can use maces wont mean that they would have to only use maces. Seriously, should druids only use leather armor and staffs instead of cloth armor and 1h+Oh and ignore healing upgrade just because they can use staffs and leather armor?

If you really know what stats healer paladins need, then you also should know that just like casters, healers too can choose stats that they prefer most. What I see as most important healing stat for healadins is of course spell power, second is intellect, third is spell crit raiting and fourth you can choose and there is either haste or mp/5 left or you can have both if you like, up to you.

Yes, mp/5 is good stat and if there is spell power, mp/5, and crit raiting on weapon, then that makes it 100% suitable for healadins but it is also good for priests and also casters can have use for that kind of weapon or item, but casters are last on needing list. Weapons, rings and necklaces that has spell power, intellect, crit or haste raiting but no mp/5 I see as items which can be usefull for casters and healers, thus both can roll for it. Which you perfer more, healadin who gives a sword to mage even though that sword is better than paladin has and later on that raid your raid get's wiped and all leave, or paladin who rolls for that sword and gets better healing and you manage to clear the raid if not without wiping, at least few less.

Once again, just because healer paladin can use other healing weapon than mage or warlock, wont mean that they should roll only weapons they alone with other healers can use. All mages and warlocks who disagrees with me, imagine that, if you would be wearing Flameheart Spell Scalpel, Life and Death would drop and you get kicked from raid after you roll / need on it. After you ask reason for kicking, leader answers that you were kicked from raid because you needed / rolled on Life and Death, instead of letting healer paladin have it. Now, how fast you would call that leader a noob and add him / her to ignore list? Basically, that same treatement you give to paladins, just because paladins can use maces wont mean that they should not roll on sword if it is better than mace they are wearing it. If sword has more spell power and crit raiting, that leaves mp/5 or haste raiting to be chosen by player it self, not others. If you think that healadin that ignores mp/5 is noob, then so be it. You can always say that "you do know that this sword lowers your mana regenerated while casting by x ammount of that so called best healer paladin weapon is tha great mace has", but be nice and let paladins roll or need or whatever your raid is using to determine who gets that drop. Being nice to Paladin might reward you, ever thought that if you let paladin need on that sword, he/she might let you need something that would be good for both, casters and healers if it's not so great upgrade.

Comment by 340811

As I told you above, if you know what stats paladins need, you should know that they can choose their own healing style. Let me demonstrate.

Yes, this is good sword for healer paladins, divine plea is good way to gain back some mana, but it also reduces 50% healing done by all spells made by Paladin who is using it. For casters, this is good weapon too, good spell power and nice casting reducement. But coming back to healer paladins and mp/5 you mentioned. Now Mp/5 is still good stat for healadins, if you think what would be best handler, I'd say healer as I have paladin myself. Now haste raiting does make casting bit faster and divine plea does regenerate mana while casted Y ammount based on paladins mana pool.

As I told above, divine plea also reduces 50% of all healing spells casted by paladin, meaning that if paladin has 2K healing bonus, with divine plea on paladin heals as if he/she would have just 1K healing bonus. Because of that if you are planing to make paladin who runs out of mana only rare accasions, haste raiting should be ignored and you should stack mp/5 instead. But if you are planing to make healer paladin who heals fast, and has huge healing overall affect, then mp/5 should be ignored and you should stack your paladin with spell power, intellect, spell critical hit raiting and haste raiting.

After new talents, just like protection and retribution paladins were changed to have better use for same gear than warriors, holy paladins can now choose their healing style more freely. Via new talents holy paladins get mana from every critical heal they cast, that's why stacking alot of spell power, haste raiting and spell critical hit raiting is better than stacking mp/5 instead of haste or crit raiting.

Comment by URanu5

I think your confused on one thing.... Holy Palys even with almost NO mp5.... just cant go OOM!, unless it is in the fight against Patchwork ( constant heals with no stoping, though I lasted about 8 min. with 50% mana left at least at the end of it.) or Kelthazad ( lol i got mana detonation 4 times in a row... i needed Divine plea and used my lay on hands for more instant mana JUST IN CASE as a OOM buffer if i got mana detonation... AGAIN O_O which i didnt and ended the fight with 20% mana :) ) all this with just less than 100 mp5.. there is no need for mp5 on Holy paladins In EoE25 and below raids... Uldar maybe but I assume we will get gear for it before hell occurs lol as in Hard mode.
Divine Plea halves your heals... so yes it is worse, tho i still use Avenging wrath with my divine plea if im using it while healing >_< hurts my soul to see my heals go from 4k to 2k lol
It is... a healing style i guess u can say... But it is the most retarded style lmao, yay u never go below 90% mana! but wait... ur heals suck... u cant get them off on time... ur not even criting O_o.... i checked out a haste geared paly ( all gems and items with as much haste as possible) .. and it is sexy lol .8 sec flash of lights jus buffed with the 15% judgement haste >_< *orgasm* and then i want to take it to the other extreme and do 50% crit... so my flash of lights will have a 100% crit with sacred shield.... another *orgasm* and finally, wat i am close to right now is the most int.. if fully buffed with MOTW, Arcane, and Kings... 25k mana pool! so awesome with also a lotta sp since get 20% of ur int turned into sp :)... >_> although once u reach 2k sp.. ur doin overkill imo..
Crit and Haste how ever can never be overkill till 100% crit ;) and 1k haste... since its HARD to get more haste and it doesnt help as much any more :( QQ!
But u have to gem for these extremes as well as get the weapons.. what u choose is up to u.. but for the time being... mp5 is worthless.. if u want a item with mp5 save it for uldar.

Comment by Kathucka

Arguing is pointless. This is the second-best caster weapon for mages, warlocks, and paladins, and they're all going to try to get it. The winner is the one with the most loot points (DKP, EPGP), or the one with the highest roll.

For reference, holy paladins like intellect the best, by far. Spell power and crit rating are next-best. Haste is appreciated by some paladins, but generally less useful. MP/5, while not completely useless, is not nearly as good as any of the other stats. Spirit is completely useless.

As such, there are five ideally itemized epic holy paladin weapons at level 80, as follows: Grieving Spellblade, Titansteel Guardian, Hammer of the Astral Plane, Life and Death, and The Turning Tide. Also very good, even though it has MP/5, is the Torch of Holy Fire.

Here's a comparison.

Comment by 293841

i'm a warlock.
and i think i need to change my pants.

Comment by 337560

As a similar post to the above one, there are also 6 epic sword/dagger for warlocks and mages from naxx. They are Grieving Spellblade, Blade of Dormant Memories, The Soulblade , Haunting Call , Life and Death , and The Turning Tide.
Soul blade and Haunting call are not very useful if you are hit capped already, but it all depends on what you need in the stats. Life and Death and The Turning Tide are the best for us and both have 3 solid stats on them. I know there are no spirit there for warlocks but the other stat makes up for it. In addition, we cant use maces, so torch of holy fire and hammer of astral plane are out of the question for us.

Comment by eDGe87

As a Paladin myself, I would pass on this for the Warlocks and Mages, since https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/item=39423 is slightly better than this one, and easy to obtain.

Comment by 265494

Just got this last night. Looks amazing on my Gnome lock. Hands down the best looking weapon in WotLK.

For the record, it was me and a paladin who rolled on it. I wouldn't have had any hard feelings if he'd won it, as I see loads of pally's with this and The Turning Tide.

Comment by childofnewlight

Can a holy paladin equip this?

Yes.

For a caster does the type of weapon (dagger, sword, mace, etc) matter if all stats are similar?

No. It's a stat stick. Casters receive no real bonus from the type of weapon they have equipped like a melee might.

Is stamina, haste, ~~cri~~t, sp, and intellect important for a paladin?

YES.

No decent self respecting paladin is stacking mp5 anymore. This is Lich King, not Burning Crusade. Our itemization is spell power, intellect, crit, and haste. This weapon has spell power, intellect, crit, and haste.

The only reason I'm seeing that we shouldn't roll on this is because its a sword. Hello. Paladin. Sword. The argument against a paladin equipping this is illogical. This is NOT a cloth piece. Its a freakin' sword.

Well mages and warlocks can't roll on maces!

Well paladins can't roll on daggers or staffs so with that logic mages shouldn't roll on swords either.

A holy paladin is still a caster. It benefits from caster stats as equally as a DPS caster. This is just as much a Holy Paladin weapon as it is a Warlock or Mage weapon. If its stats are relevant and it can be equipped no one class has unchallenged access.

Comment by 443886

The most sexy caster sword EVER, in my freaking honest opinion

Comment by Ifridge

seriously the best model ever

Comment by 340234

ITS SEADRAMON

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Life and Death

	Phase 1

Item Level 213
Binds when picked up
Unique

Main Hand	Sword

78 - 248 Damage	Speed 1.80

(90.56 damage per second)
+42 Stamina
+44 Intellect
Durability 105 / 105

Requires Level 80
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 42.
Equip: Improves haste rating by 29.
Equip: Increases spell power by 461.

Sell Price: 20 81 15

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