Comments

Comment by Rerox

Stats update:

Equip: Improves hit rating by 83.
Equip: Your melee and ranged attacks have a chance to increase your armor penetration rating by 612 for 10 sec.

Comment by 111707

Similar to Warp Spring Coil, minus the Rogue-only and a bit less ArP, which I guess is calculated a lot differently in Wrath.

Comment by Sounder

Proc chance: 15%. (Just click through the second Equip: effect.)

Comment by HaklePrime

This dropped from Grobbulus.25

Comment by Athene

Has anyone tested if this proccs off seals?

I'm certain there's an ICD on this, it's too powerful to not have one.

Comment by wingman

At level 80, it takes 15.395 armor pen rating to reduce your target's armor by 1%.

Therefore, the proc on this trinket reduces your target's armor by 612 / 15.395 = 39.75%, ie alot. I'm assuming that this was invented before they made the change from armor ignore to armor penetration rating and it was going to be 612 armor ignore but forgot to update it.

Otherwise, very powerful trinket is very powerful.

Comment by 144159

the 612 armor penetration equals to around 36.72% of your enemies armor.

I found out this way:

1. Searched for Brutal Gladiator's Quickblade, turned the Armor pen. rating into level 80 equal, and it said 0.45% for 7 rating.

2. 0.45 : 7 = around 0.06

3. 0.06 *612 = 36.72

4. and that is then the % of your enemies armor that is reduced :]

Comment by organic

This thing looks to be way ahead of the other trinkets in terms of DPS value, at least for a feral druid. Is this going to be the new DST?

Comment by 70672

Just got this trinket tonight and during its proc, I checked and was at %56.54 for ignoring armor. Obviously, I have other armor penetration modifiers, but the proc on this trinket was roughly a 40% increase. Add into the equation all that hit, and you have a fantastic trinket.

Comment by 238470

This trinket is actually quite good for Ret Pallies, if your guild will let you get ahold of one.

Got mine lastnight and confirmed that: Procs of Judgement of Command & Martyr, Divine Storm, Crusader Strike, Seal of Command procs, Hammer of Wrath, and of course normal white swings.

Appears to have a 45 second internal cooldown, shortest time between procs was 46 seconds over about 10 minutes of testing.

Comment by 235201

Amazing trinket, looks to be absolutely perfect for a TG warrior, not just obscene hit but armor penetration? Just what I need to shorten the extended fights against tanks... and definitely would have its place for pve dps as well..

Comment by DEXether

Confirmed Sinchild's claim of ~40%. just got it tonight and the proc brings me from 11% to 51.7%

Comment by 251701

This trinket is actually quite good for Ret Pallies, if your guild will let you get ahold of one.

I disagree. Pally half holy half phisical damage, thanks to judgements etc.
This is mostly for phisical damage classes, such Rogues, Hunters, Warriors, (Feral Druids), Shamans Melee.

Comment by pibbz

Paladins have not done 'half physical half holy' since before Wrath came out, when most of their holy damage was converted into physical damage. Nice try though.

You are right, its more like 40% physical / 60% holy now.

Facts from my last raid (Narrow example, but still):
Total damage done by abilities: 9 909 597
Total Holy Damage: 5 949 188 (~60%)
Total Physical Damage: 3 960 409 (~40%)

Same example but without Exorcism and Holy Wrath (To normalize for non-undead bosses)
Total Holy Damage: 5 564 243 (~58%)
Total Physical Damage: 3 960 409 (~42%)
Source: http://wowwebstats.com/2lz5b4vm116ge?s=bosses&a=x1401769

Another example:
Total damage done by abilities: 7 728 394
Total Holy Damage: 4 314 904 (~56%)
Total Physical Damage: 3 413 490 (~44%)
Same example but without Exorcism and Holy Wrath (To normalize for non-undead bosses)
Total Holy Damage: 4 220 723 (~55%)
Total Physical Damage: 3 413 490 (~45%)

Source: http://wowwebstats.com/mqa63v5vnlfj3?a=x3d14c6&s=bosses

Give or take +/- 1% to compensate for Glyph of Sense Undead

Nice try though ;)

Comment by Aethera

This trinket definatly has a 45 second internal cooldown, tested it on target dummies, got a new proc 45-50 seconds after the previous one at least 10 times in a row.

Plus the hit rating is yum yum yummie ofcourse.

Comment by 105332

An absolutely amazing trinket, the benefit it brings to PvE is huge for classes dependent on Physical damage, and in PvP its devastating, already we have a Fury warrior who dabbles in the arena as Arms, and when this trinket procs he can drop anyone short of a class with an immunity bubble with Bladestorm + SD Hit.

Comment by 192801

This trinket is Warp-Spring Coil 2.0 except it now has no class requirements and can proc on any melee or ranged attack

Comment by goto2

For PVE dps there are better alternatives, but where this trinket shines is situational PVP.

It procs very often and has an internal cooldown, and usually activates at the start of a fight. The effect of this trinket proc coupled with heavy damage cooldown reliant abilities is devastating. Secondly it helps satisfy the minimum hit rating needed for melee with pvp gear on. Its hard to find enough hit gear with PVP gear so this helps with that.

Comment by nolervik

As been said before, this is absolutely amasing in PvP aswell as PvE.

As a rogue i have always found it hard to kill plate wearers (Warriors, palas and DK:s), because of their huge amount of armor.

Now with this (and when it proccs ofcourse) the problem is solved! :)

Comment by Vexan

when this goes off at the same time i have 3 stacks from https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/item=43613 I end up ignoring over 73% of opponents armor. Doen't happen often but when it does it makes for a nice slice and dice.....

Comment by Gylin

Just got this last night on my feral druid. When this and my Meteorite Whetstone proc together I can blast through just about any level 80 non elite mob in under 20 seconds. Gotta say this is one sick trinket. :)

Comment by ADneo

When it procs its basicly free dmg, its almost equvalent to AP trinkets

im a druid, shred crits for normally 9000-10000
with proc up shred goes up to 12000 crits and i can get off up to 4-5 shreds with berserker up while proc is up
so pretty much free 10k+ dmg every 45 sec

sick trinket for any melee, do not pass it up u will not regret

Comment by 295855

although some hunters would pass this, but this could help my hunter's hit rating, considering the fate she is at 135 hit rating atm and do having a hard time getting the gear with hit rating and the fact she just spec to survival the other day.

Comment by 262193

A hunter with 135 hit rating should not be doing 25 man Naxx.

Hunter hitcap is 256, or 8%. We get 96 from talents. 135 + 96 = 231 (7.22%). If the hunter is Draenei or partied with one (which can and should be done to accommodate almost-capped players), the hunter is hitcapped per Heroic Presence. If the Draenei racial is not an option, Snapper Extreme is always available, which would also hitcap said hunter.

135 hit is just fine.

EDIT: And no, you shouldn't roll on this as a hunter unless you're horribly under the hit cap.

Comment by 248978

I don't understand why you people keep saying this trink is bad for hunters?

I just got this 2 nights ago and my DPS friggin' sky-rocketed 'cause of the ArP and honestly, I needed the hit. :P
Imho, this coupled with Bandit's Insignia is one hell of a trink combo, wouldn't say the best but surely one of the better.

Comment by 262193

1) Do not get Focused Aim. Your pet does not benefit from Focused Aim, yet it DOES benefit from hit rating. I realize you were saying that it's a quick way to cap if you're not, but even then, just get hit from other sources.

True - I should have said that. If at all possible, hit capping via gear is better. But some of us poor saps had to go the cheap way and talent it until our gear dropped.

2) You may not believe this, but your hit cap WITHOUT HEROIC PRESENCE is actually 7%. Not 8%.

No, it's not. I'm not sure how you tested this and got such incorrect numbers. Not saying you're dumb, I'm just saying you might not have tested under the right conditions. With 7.42% hit rating (no buffs/racials), after firing 388 shots I had missed 3 times. Didn't feel the need to do more. Maybe you only fired 50-100 shots and got lucky that those shots did not miss - entirely possible. Try your testing with a larger shot size, it shouldn't take you long to miss. Note that also having only 7.xx% hit means your pet is missing a full percent of hit (it rounds down to the nearest whole point).

You can read more here, where numerous folks have established that 8% is the current hit cap.

Comment by 230758

I understand what you said here, but why ArP is not helping?

Comment by 273701

Anyone have a clue why Wrathstone (recent drop on 3.1 for Kologarn) is the exact same stats as Grim Toll? MMO-Champ has a SS for the new trinket as 83hit and chance on proc for +612 ArPen. Whats the deal?

Comment by 105488

There is an entry on the 3.1 PTR notes ...

Armor Penetration Rating: All classes now receive 25% more benefit from Armor Penetration Rating.

Comment by billnsandi

Hunter thoughts on this trinket:

With all the hit on this trinket it gives you the flexibility to take pieces without hit in other slots. Some best in slot items do not have hit, and unless your rocking Black Ice then it may be a compromise to get hit capped relying purely on BiS items.

In regards to SV vs MM and BM on this trinket - I average nearly 50% physical damage with the FoM SV build (without the trinket)

naxx25 full clear bossfight only wws parse
http://wowwebstats.com/sxfzwfmsr55ty?a=x3c4bbc&s=bosses

When 3.1 hits and armor pen gets buffed, this trinket will rock (even more than it does now).

Comment by Immortal

I've made a graph, showing effectivness of Grim Toll proc for PvP.
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/4790/grimtoll.jpg
Y axis is physical damage increase in percents and X axis is target's armor. Maximum damage gain is 12.19% at 19464 armor.

Comment by Glucose

this isnt the best trinket for survival hunters, looking at dps:
you get roughly 1.35 dps pr agility so Darkmoon card: greatness will provide roughly this amount of dps

90*1.35 = 121.5 90 passive agility multiplyed by 1.35
300*1.35/30 = 13.5 the proc, 300 agility multiplyed by 1.35 then devided by 30 due to the cooldown, 45 sec cooldown, buff is up for 15 secs.
121.5+13.5=135 adding these numbers will give roughly 135 dps.

some of the other trinkets avalible for hunters are; Fury of the five flights, bandits insigna, grim toll, and then mirror of truth

Bandits insigna will provide you with this amount of dps, in raids with all debuffs on the boss (average basis)
1 attack power will roughly give you 0.48 dps

190*0,48= 91,2 190 passive attackpower multiplyed by 0,48
3500/45=77.7778 the the proc, this is tricky, I have decided to lower the proc down from 5000 to 3500 due to resists and all that, but I think this is a rough estimate for an average hit, decided by the cooldown
91.2+77.78=168.98 adding these numbers and you have the final dps, about 30 more than darkmoon card: greatness

now its time to fury of the five flights:
once again, 1 attack power will roughly give you 0.48 dps

320*0.48=153.6 getting 20 stacks of the buff will give you 320 attack power (20*16) then simply multiply these numbers and you have the dps.

Grim Toll:
I would reconmend using this trinket if you lack hit, these calculations are based on you using the hit on this trinket to get capped.
1 hit rating gives you roughly 1.36 dps and 1 armor pennetration gives you about 0.88 dps

83*1,36 = 112.88 83 passive hit rating multiplyed by 1.36, once again, this only affects your dps untill you have 8% hit, everything above it is a waste and you wont gain any dps of hit after that.
612*0.88/35 = 15.3874 612 armor pennetration for 10 seconds, multiply by 0.88 and devide by 35, the amount of time you wont have the buff.
112.9+15.4=128.3 adding the numbers and you have the dps.

and now Mirror of truth!
crit provides a survival hunter with 0.78 dps and attack power 0.48 dps

84*0.78=65.52 84 passive crit rating multiplyed by 0.78
1000*0.48/35 = 13.7143 the proc, is up for 10 seconds so amount of attack power (1000) multiplyed by the amount of dps you gain pr attack power, devided by 35, the amount of time where you dont have the buff.
65.52+14.6=79.2343 adding the numbers

looking at these calculations, I would say the best trinkets for a survival hunter is fury of the five flights and bandits insigna.

Comment by 347358

90*1.35 = 121.5 90 passive agility multiplyed by 1.35
300*1.35/30 = 13.5 the proc, 300 agility multiplyed by 1.35 then devided by 30 due to the cooldown, 45 sec cooldown, buff is up for 15 secs.
121.5+13.5=135 adding these numbers will give roughly 135 dps.

This looks pretty wrong... especially the proc dps... It's up 1/3 of the time, therefore you divide by 3 rather than by 30... Assuming the 1.35DPS/AGI is good, you rather get 40,5DPS for the proc and again 121,5DPS for the passive. It is therefore 162DPS.

However, I just wanted to drop by to say that Grim Toll gets vastly buffed with the 3.1 patch. ArP gets a 25% per rating buff, therefore this trinket will give a 50% armor reduction proc every 45 seconds or so. Add to that that sunder armor and faerie fire will now STACK with the ArP debuff, you get a an additive total 75% armor reduction when this trinket procs. Add to this that with Naxx gear you can easily get 10% armor reduction without even trying, you now have 85% armor reduction when it procs. And for Arms Warriors, you get 10% armor reduction for being in battle stance. Now at 95%. And if you are Mace Spec, you have an additionnal 15% armor reduction. So 110% when Grim Toll procs, and at 60% when it doesn't proc.

SO, for a fully sundered, with faerie fire, this trinket will take armor reduction from 25 to 75%. Thus a 21,5% dmg reduction reduction. A 21,5% physical DPS increase. If the character has 10% base armor reduction through ArP, it is a 24,42% physical DPS increase per proc. For an arms warrior now, without mace spec, it is a 27,96% physical DPS increase per proc. And with mace spec, thus moving at 110% armor reduction, it is a 25,57% physical dps increase. All calculations made using the base armor reduction formula which is DR = Armor / (Armor + 15 232,5). Assumed lvl 83 boss armor is 13 083. I believe this is subject to change with 3.1 and I do not have the value at my disposition. It shows clearly that over 50% static armor reduction this trinket starts shining less, being optimal at 50%. As to proc uptime, i take into account it is up 22,2% of the time at most, so rounding down at 20% might be the good choice. So, at its optimum thus proccing at 50%, it is a 6,68% static DPS increase to physical dmg. I can't say much trinket procs offer me this much static DPS increase right now as a fury warrior myself.

As an end note, just wanted to say how this trinket will shine for pure physical dps classes... thus probably only warriors now since all of our dmg is physical, explosive shot being fire dmg, etc, etc. And really, the additionnal hit rating is just icing on the cake, and being probably less valuable to warriors after the soft hit cap than most other classes, it balances out for being good for pretty much any class.

EDIT: To reply to comments below. The math was made by myself, I do not need any source. Also, between the time I wrote this comment and Genome852 published his, ArP had been demonstrated to actually have no cap at all. Therefore, it WAS possible to go into negative armor values. However, GC recently said that devs are looking into capping ArP at 100% armor reduction. It is not yet done.

Comment by 379270

Stacked with my https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/spell=12704 and my https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/spell=8647 comes up to 85%. Witch is covenient considering all the horde seems to be right now (at least on my sever) are Pallys and DKs. I'm tired of losing battles against DKs and pallys because they're covered in plate and can heal, Where I'm covered in leather and cannot AT ALL.

Comment by 258545

this item is certainly the best trinket for arms warrs pre-3.1, i dont know abt ulduar...

However, this proc rate depends greatly upon the way the buffs work.

If the 1st thing that happens is the warrior base skills(mace spec and Battle Stance) kick in, you start off with 75% armor where this leaves the boss with 45,18 %, whereas if it is 1st the buffs then warr skills this leaves him with a 15,06% armor...

Given a 27.88 ArP at base character, so a 67,64 ArP with this, buffs 1st = 16,91, where as it is 38,0475 for warr mechanics 1st...

i do hope blizz has made it buffs 1st then debuffs then mechanics or else this goes rotten

Comment by 48165

@Bapsy:

You are wrong.

If you played Paladin you would actually know that. At the time of your post judgements had a higher amount of damage dealt however, it still isn't the case.

The majority of readers seem to disagree with you however, and I'm quite confused as I can't find any clear source for this information anywhere (but may just not be looking in the right places).

Do you have any source to confirm what you say? My experience is mostly in prot paladins but I dabble in retri occasionally, I'm fairly sure that most of my holy damage in prot is unaffected by armour, but is there a reason this would be different for certain retri abilities?

Comment by Bordeguy

Correct me if i'm wrong but this would be an amazing trinket for blood DKs. I've yet to see this drop for me but looking forward to getting this soon.

Comment by 429816

Hey guys,

what do you think about having this trinket as a rogue in PvP?
The ARP (which some people said to be roughly -50% armor) is surely great in PvP, isn`t it?

As an example: You stunlock a warrior or any other plate wearing class for example as a human rogue. In your first
trinket slot you have darkmoon card greatness and in the second Grim Toll.
This should give you a huge damage boost combined with a huge amount of armor penetration (-50% from TG and other items as well).

I think with this combination, our most hated enemies - plate wearing classes - should go down within seconds, right?

Btw: Does the rogue`s expose armor stack with that trinket? if it does... Hell, that would be -70% armor on you target! If you have some other items with arp, the warrior would be standing in front of you almost naked!

I`m looking forward to your responses :)

Comment by Hoyman

I just got this today on my Hunter. The 2 rogues in the group werent happy but it was a pug and it replaced a lvl 70 trinket so i think it's ok. I hate how rogues always have to cry and complain to the raid leader after they lose rolls. They didnt reserve this epic loot anyway.

Comment by 437220

This trinket seems to be a very important trinket for blood DKs, and really for any plate wearing class that needs armor penetration and str. For the awesome proc that scales very well with physical dmg and more importantly because most gear at the ilvl213+ range that give str also tend to give crit and either ArP or hit, but not both; this trinket will allow you to maintain that hit cap and still maintain high lvls of ArP.

Comment by 227262

I'm just to the point in my dps set that this is starting to look really, really good, where if I switch my agil gems to ArP I'd be near soft cap so I'm about to start farming..

But earlier it was stated that it is a 5% drop from each boss, wowhead is currently saying 11% each making it a 44% per run to see, did they change this? It being so good the 5% chance had to change so I'll be really happy if bliz actually did change it.

Comment by quadtard

Grim toll, once one of the most pointless trinkets, now the bane of every melee dps's existence.

Comment by 172622

The drop chance is actually 11%, not 5%.

Comment by Auroron

But the question is, with the upcoming ArP nerf, will this trinket be useless again?

Comment by 181778

For the record it wouldn't be 75% Armor reduction as it doesn't stack as follows (With both tinkets proc'd) cause you get a passive 15% from the (Tier-5 Rogue Talent-Mace Specialization)now that is off of the base armor causing the base armor to be less than originally intended, so after that it would be a reduction of remaining armor 85% reduced by an additional 23.63%+39.76% equaling 63.39%.

So with that said and your opponent having 10k Armor (as an example) after the talent you would be left with 8500 armor reduced again by 63.39% making enemy armor 5388.15.

Now thats a reduction of 3111.85 armor after the ArP stat not the talent, you just nerfed that stats by reducing the armor of your opponent by 15% as it would have originally removed (Without the talent) 6339 armor making the enemy armor 3661 armor.

A significant nerf of ArP by your own talent designed to up your Dps. So if i was you i would stop using maces and let the ArP do its job and get the extra Crit from Fist weapons and/or Daggers. All in all you are just gonna nerf your own ArP as its already gonna get reduced even more if a warrior Sunders the armor of "Insert NPC here" reducing the effect of ArP even more.

Now thats if i remember correctly and the Talent does make the base armor less cause its not figured in with ArP.
Never have i seen the extra 15% added into the ArP, So if you were to scroll over Hit-Rating and seeing below your chance to hit the ArP-Rating and how much armor it reduces showing the extra 15% even with no ArP, it is still 0 equaling 0.00% Reduction (Obviously).

To make sure...
I am gonna post this message in the Worldofwarcraft.com forums and see if i cant get a GM to let me know if this is true or false.

╔╗╔╗╔╗╗╔╔╗
╠╝║║║╗║║╠
╝╚╚╝╚╝╚╝╚╝

Comment by 438186

I curse whoever disenchanted a dream shard off of this thing with all of my heart and soul.

Comment by 235924

Wowhead states that it drops off of 4 bosses in Naxx 25 Normal, Just wanted to verify that it truly has an 11% drop chance off of 4 bosses.

Ty for verification in advance.

Comment by Buttery

Just wanted to remind people that this is out there and is easily obtainable. Good luck all with your 100% I am 10 rating under while 10 rating over expertise, kinda annoying =T

Comment by 412775

Heck, don't go and PuG naxx if you are looking for this..
Dropped twice, and every melee was rolling for OS -_-

Comment by ay1ko

this is easier to get https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/item=50198
drops from Heroic Forge of Souls > Devourer of Souls

Comment by 330363

Grim toll can double proc with needle encrusted scorpion but it is very rare. As an arms warrior in berserker fro the extra crit, (around 40%) i got 1 double proc in about 9 minutes.

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Grim Toll

	Phase 1

Item Level 213
Binds when picked up
Unique

Trinket

Requires Level 80
Equip: Improves hit rating by 83.
Equip: Your melee and ranged attacks have a chance to increase your armor penetration rating by 612 for 10 sec. (Proc chance: 15%, 45s cooldown)

Sell Price: 11 39 40

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