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Comment by JaxOmen

This seems like a mediocre dual-purpose talent or a good PvE talent. 6% damage from 30+ feet away seems nice, but isn't very reliable in any mobility-based encounter and is worthless in PvP, and the kill shot crit chance seems like it'd be useful in PvP and useful against raid bosses, and nothing else, in PvE.

Comment by 176639

This talent has been overhauled so that it no longer sucks nearly as bad. While holding still for 6 seconds may seem like a long time, there are enough occasions where you get to just all-out dps to make it worthwhile. And since Kill Shot no longer sucks (I still don't know what they were thinking when they put the knockback on it), that part of the talent is pretty nice as well. All in all, I suspect that this talent will give you a decent return for your talent points.

Comment by 152555

It's hard enough to stay more than 5-10 yards away from a rogue/war/and now shamans. And when on the offensive it's the same thing, the further you are the easier you are los in arena. So you want to stay pretty close to your target to maintain wing clips. They should change the distance and make this apply to all ranged shots.

Comment by 24111

I think you're missing the most important point. Suvival hunters are no longer some trapping, drinking their own *!@# scouts.

Yeah we're Snipers. The cool guys, sneaking, shooting the most important stuff on the battlefield. Generals will kneel, kings will bow. And now, we even got THE EXPLOSIVES!

Comment by ayrenn

This talent is frustratingly weak when you see how many bosses in the currently available level 80 raid content that require you to position yourself in certain ways. The damage increase seems nice, but it's poorly designed. There are just too many encounters where this won't apply.

Comment by 43530

There's a matter of keeping within the proper range. There's also the issue of lacking an indicator stating you are 30+ yards away.

Then there's also a matter of synergy with other talents. Namely, it's lack of synergy with Lock and Load. To maximize the potential of Sniper Training is to halve the potential of Lock and Load, and vice versa.

See, if you manage to successfully maintain a 30+ yard range at all times, you CANNOT use Traps, and therefore cannot get the 100% Guaranteed Explosive Shot burst. End result, you are left with a version of Nightfall, since that talent procs of at least one of two-four DoTs, whereas LnL can only proc of the Hunter's Single Serpent Sting. Alternatively, you could say it's works as a slightly buffed version of the Glyph of Corruption instead.

Alternatively, if you either always stay close to a target in order to ensure landing traps every 30 seconds to guarantee LnL, you effectively negate Sniper Training almost entirely.

One could argue that well you *could* run in to trap, use Disengage, and then run back further to get the 30 yards to finally unleash the 3 Explosive Shots... but the only DPS you get then is from Sting ticks and Immo/Exp Trap if you used that trap. In other words, that is unfeasable; a moot point.

Edit: While one could use Freezing Arrow to avoid the synergy issue between LnL and ST, it's not reliable on certain mobs, namely water/ice types (often immune to said schools), mobs intentionally CC-immune, and lastly, Raid Bosses.

In the simplest sense. I think Blizzards view on both spells are that each have a PvP and PvE exclusive app, not something useful for both.
i.e. Sniper Training's Kill Shot Crit boost (PvP) and Increased Shot damage if at 30+ yards (PvE). Lock-and-Load's Guaranteed Proc off traps (PvP) and Proc of Stings (PvE).

Comment by Vitaropago

Whether you are inside of your max range but outside of 30 yards can easily be visualized by having Throw on your bars: As soon as this ability is red due to being out of range but you can still shoot your bow/gun abilities, you are in the "sweet spot". (Note: This might require an addon to color your buttons when out of range)

That being said this talent is extremely lackluster, considering that the raid-wide ret-pala aura Retibution Aura cannot not give you Sanctified Retribution anymore when out of its range. +3% to all shots and stings >> a situational +6% to a few, in my opinion.

Comment by 295385

ok guys i am confused with this talent.
do i have to be 30 yard away to get the +15% crit chance for my kill shot.
I was thinking the 30 yard range is only needed for the 6% boost in dmg for the other shots.
someone please confirm.
Thanks

Comment by 251999

Well what im wondering was if it was a wording error
or or now we don't need 3 points or even one point in
Hawk eye.

Comment by 267194

Is this a neccessary talent for solo or instances?

Comment by Rexz

Note, Night Elf Hunters can utilized this pretty well along with Shadowmeld. By sitting in fixed stealth for a short period of time waiting to ambush you will not only gain the surprise attack/ first blow, but a buffed one as well with this talent.

Comment by Tarudizer

fun fact : while on a moving zeppelin, this wont proc.

Comment by Wicek

It does proc while dancing.

Comment by 103447

Quick question, Though I will try to test it myself, Does this ability appy if you are cced by an ability that stops you moving? Ie. Frost trap, hammer of justice etc?

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Sniper Training

Sniper Training

Talent

Increases the critical strike chance of your Kill Shot ability by 15%, and while standing still for 6 sec, you gain Sniper Training increasing the damage done by your Steady Shot, Aimed Shot, Black Arrow and Explosive Shot by 6% for 15 sec.

Spell Details

Duration

n/a

School

Physical

Mechanic

n/a

Dispel type

n/a

GCD category

n/a

Cost

None

Range

0 yards (Self)

Cast time

Instant

Cooldown

n/a

GCD

0 seconds

Effect #1

Apply Aura: Periodically trigger spell (14)
Value: 6 every 1 second
PVP Multiplier: 1
Affected Spells:

	Disengage	Mongoose Bite	Freezing Trap
	Raptor Strike	Wing Clip	Immolation Trap
	Frost Trap	Explosive Trap	Raptor Strike
	Raptor Strike	Raptor Strike	Raptor Strike
	Raptor Strike	Raptor Strike	Raptor Strike
	Mongoose Bite	Mongoose Bite	Mongoose Bite
Show 33 More
	Immolation Trap	Immolation Trap	Immolation Trap
	Immolation Trap	Freezing Trap	Freezing Trap
	Explosive Trap	Explosive Trap	Raptor Strike
	Immolation Trap	Explosive Trap	Snake Trap
	Mongoose Bite	Raptor Strike	Raptor Strike
	Immolation Trap	Immolation Trap	Explosive Trap
	Explosive Trap	Mongoose Bite	Freezing Arrow
	Trap Launcher: Explosive Trap	Counterattack	Counterattack
	Counterattack	Counterattack	Counterattack
	Counterattack	Black Arrow	Black Arrow
	Black Arrow	Black Arrow	Black Arrow

Effect #2

Apply Aura: Modifies Critical Strike Chance (7)
Value: 15
PVP Multiplier: 1
Affected Spells:

	Kill Shot		Kill Shot		Kill Shot
	Thrill of the Hunt

Flags

Is Ability
Passive spell
Aura is hidden
Cast time is hidden

Sniper Training

Buff

Spell Details

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