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Comment by 175736

face it, this is obviously a raiding talent.

its a 10% chance proc from auto shot ONLY.

which is pretty ridiculous (in my opinion only feel free to interject) but most of the time your shot rotations are gonna be filled with steady shots arcane shots and in WOTLK, kill shots.

yeh sure your gonna those few auto shots in... but then again, 10% chance? 3 talent points for a 10% chance only? or maybe when you're oom (which you obviously shouldnt be) you would be auto-shotting ftw?

i would say that they either increased the % chance or increase the dmg instead of 60% to like 100 or 120% because its not unreasonable

the 3 talent points put on this could be used elsewhere which would be more reasonable. Sure it provides a pretty substantial dmg boost for MM hunters------> when it procs

Comment by 102520

An ability that makes concussive barrage ( https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/spell=35103 ) actually useful, well not quite :P

In WotLK, steady shots no longer clip auto shots so rather than factoring in 1:1 or 3:2 shot rotations, we can treat shots in overlapping blocks.

Let's assume that (as MM) your white shot speed is down to 2.5 seconds and you have 0 latency.

For every 5 steady shots, you will shoot 3 auto shots in WotLK.
Making a (safe) estimate of 2500 rap for hunters, white damage will average about 916 per shot while level 77 steady shot will average about 780 damage per shot. Assuming these are the only two shots/abilities you are doing, expect ~6648 total damage per 7.5 seconds with your auto shot doing ~41.3% of your total damage. Total DPS, 886.4

To make the math simple, we'll assume for every 10 auto shots, we get an additional "wild quiver" proc, and in this time we can sneak in 16 steady shots, still assuming no latency. So for 16 steady shots you'll be doing 12,480 damage and the 10 auto shots you'll be doing 9160 damage, then factor in the proc for ~550 damage, bringing out auto shot damage up to 9710 damage, now the ratio is ~43.8% of your total damage. Total DPS, 887.6

That's a big problem, we only gained about 1.5 dps in a raid environment with a three talent ability. So what's the point of the ability? There are a few possible uses for this ability, an additional attack means an additional chance to crit, which can then proc "go for the throat" which will boost your overall DPS. An additional white damage attack in an arena environment can bring added pressure to your opponent. Future weapon/item set procs may occur on white damage only. You have an additional chance to proc "concussive barrage" if you have the ability. The main reason I think this ability exists is due to latency and lag.

As previously stated, in WotLK, there will be no more auto shop clipping caused by steady shot. That means that if you cast steady shot a fraction of a second before auto shot is to shoot, auto shot will not wait an additional 1.5 seconds to cast and will cast as if steady shot was never used (as it does in TBC). Now this is where no clipping of auto shot gets good, since it's on a timer, rather than the server waiting for a input command, it is automatically cast in 2.5 second intervals, so the higher the latency, the greater the percentage white damage is of overall damage.

My recommendation, if you are over consistently over 200 ms and raiding as MM, you might consider wild quiver as a counter to your latency issues, otherwise I suggest you skip it and pick up an overall dps boost ability such as "careful aim" or "ranged weapon specialization"

Comment by 175736

The main reason I th

ink this ability exists is due to latency and lag.

the main reason this ability exists is to make hunters seem OP. "OMG THEY GET FREE SHOTS?"

but when u think about it.. once again as i mentioned before 10% is not a lot.. its actually ridiculously low

An ability that makes concussive barrage ( https://www.wowhead.com/wotlk/spell=35103 ) actually useful, well not quite :P

yeh mayb haha if blizz would increase the bloody proc chance, the synergy of this, concussive barrage and steady shot would be great because u get free dazes + steady shot = steady shot more dmg!

anyway all these things are subject to change becos its still in BETA so we'll see...

Comment by 175736

doubt im even gonna spec MM lol... SV lover all the way

Comment by 176639

-Major edit due to massive changes since original post, updated for 3.1-

If we assume a natural armor mitigation of 20% (after all modifiers) and no nature resistance, this should give you an increase in DPS equal to 12% of your Autoshot DPS. However, being proc based, it is subject to Murphy's Law. You will hit dry spells with procs few and far between (and always at the worst possible time).

I haven't kept up with what percentage of damage comes from autoshot these days, but I have to think that this should actually be a fairly respectable talent now. Considering the other choice at that tier is Imp Steady Shot (which I've never personally liked), this talent seems like a pretty solid choice.

Comment by misinformed

I find it aggravating that marksman tree gives this chance on proc with mitigated damage, while beastmasters have been enjoying +20% bonus to ranged attack speed. Worse still, this is further down on the talent tree... If that isn't insulting enough... the new beastmasters will get a followup skill to their speed boosting talent (Cobra Strikes) which will help them proc their Invigoration talent...

So,
BM = +20% Ranged Attack Speed with a 60% chance to gain 6% mana back on crits
MM = 10% Chance for an extra shot at diminished damage (60%)

Forgive me, but I had assumed that the Marksmanship tree would provide the better Marksmans... I know, strange concept...

Just thinking about them starting to grab ranks in Improved Arcane Shot (now that they will be even more mana efficient) enrages me. I will remain Survival spec'd because it is far and away the best raid spec in terms of helping the raid versus being top DPS, but..

Comment by 201416

I think this ability is almost useless in arenas...you could really spend those 3 points in something better.

Comment by 131634

While this may seem like a decent MM talent, I would argue that there are better places to spend your points in the MM tree.

Wild quiver may be included in, what I suspect, what will be the MM-raid dps build: 7/57/7

However, for PvP, the better the player, generally the more he's moving. We can't autoshoot while moving, making this talent less desirable.

On another note: although it is magic-based, meaning it ignores armor, the 50% damage penalty pretty much has the same effect as attacking a target with 50% physical damage reduction... which turns out to be less than what your autoshot would hit mail. I also don't suspect that it is crit-able. I wave my finger at this talent.

Comment by 145840

A seemingly good talent, but in action this does a lowly aount of damage. Over 1 kara run it did a total of 25k damage;

Stats used raid buffed:
2,2k AP
27% crit
2.16 auto shot attack speed with random +15% haste thrown in.
75 hit rating.

All this using Wolfslayer Sniper Rifle (149-278 base damage range. ~665-808 modified by raid buffs)

It may just be me being very, VERY unlucky on the procs, but there are better talents to pick up. 3 points in "improved tracking" instead of this would be the better choice.

Comment by Alethea

I've been looking at this talent and I've noticed three distinct traits worth mentioning.

It is nature damage and thus ignores armor (but can be resisted).
This can critically hit
"Wild Quiver consumes no ammo". Simple phrase with further reaching implications than expected. Since it uses no ammo you also lose out on the damage from your ammo.

Given #3, even if you choose to take this talent it seems viable only for higher end geared hunters. If a significant portion of your auto shot damage comes from your ammo then this will be very noticable

Comment by 41366

It is far more likely that "consumes no ammo" simply means you do not lose an extra projectile when it procs.
If you look at the proc , it says:
"Weapon % Dmg
Value: 50"

which is the same type of effect that is on attacks such as silencing shot and chimera shot, which definitely do not ignore damage from ammunition.

Comment by 299156

in pacth 3.1.0 its proc chance is 4/8/12 and damage is 80% of auto shot damage

Comment by 307852

This means slightly increased DPS, maybe we'll be able to pick these in DPS trees (3 points in it can give 2-5% of DPS depending on your luck)
The great question: this or improved Steady shot? (or maybe both?)

We - hunters - have 3 main sources of DPS.

Auto attack
Special attacks with mana cost
Pet

This talent is one of the few talents which improve our auto attacks (there are the +5% DPS talents and the attack speed improving ones), so it's worth the points only if our auto shot DPS is significant.
Effectiveness of this talent can be improved by haste rating. More shots fired = more chance of shooting a wild quiver auto shot.

The damage output (auto shot hit = 100%):
-12% of shooting a second shot, dealing 80% damage.
---->With a 40% crit chance (which is very easy to get up to in raid as a marksman) we have 4,8% chance to shoot a 160% shot (when either WQ or Auto shot crits)
------> We have 1,92% chance to fire a nice 320% shot (when both auto shot and WQ crits)

The last 2 are included by the 12% so don't think we'll have 18% chance of shooting WQ :P

I can highly recommend this - against the improved SS:
-if you have good auto shot damage
-if you don't have the steady shot glyph

Pick imp. SS, if:
-you have weak weapon, but good attack power
-you have the SS glyph
-you have a rotation that relies on steady shot much.

Wild Quiver can be boosted by:
--> Your imp. aoth, and damage output increasing talents (Ranged wep. spec, marked for death, improved tracking)
--> Your rapid fire - temporarily, as well as heroism.
--> Glyph of imp. aoth (if you have it talented of course)
--> Haste rating
--> Druids have a spelldamage-increasing raidbuff talent, similar to old expose weakness, probably that affects WQ too.

Although we could see enthusiasting numbers, don't expect much from this new form. It is still only a low-chance free shot, and you get 5% DPS increase only if you are lucky or you make these boosts above. I can't suggest this, since putting too much effort into this talent won't bring the expected salvation for you.
Although, don't ignore this! It can be useful, as the seal of command :P

Edit: Numbers changed to fit that Mortal shots talent doesn't affect Auto shots anymore.

Comment by 297733

FREE DPS take it!

Comment by RogueLeader

Improved Steady Shot > Wild Quiver in my experience. Reasons:

1. Marksman hunters are usually hard up for mana on mana-less bosses as it stands Wild Quiver does not actually help this, Imp. SS does. Yes, WQ is mana free, but you're still spending mana on your other shots as well and Imp. SS helps with that.

2. Imp. SS may be a proc, but you also get to decide when to shoot your next Aimed/Arcane/Chimera shot which is a decent advantage in burst situations (killing Mimiron bomb bots for example). WQ does not. This is fairly minor given that mashing all your more powerful shots as soon as their cooldowns are ready will help optimize your dps. However slight the advantage, controlled burst always beats uncontrolled burst, especially for bosses during which the boss takes extra damage for periods.

3. Optimal PVE marksman glyphs do include Glyph of Steady Shot along with Glyph of Chimera Shot and Glyph of Serpent Sting. WQ does not benefit from Steady Shot, and as far as I've heard WQ does not benefit from Mortal Shots either.

4. Per rotation of Arcane Shot, Aimed Shot, and Chimera Shot, you should get in 2-3 Steady Shots. While 15% of these isn't a huge difference from the 4-5 auto shots you'll get for WQ, do remember that WQ is also unaffected by Piercing Shots, while Imp. SS does boost the extra damage from Piercing Shots for Aimed and Chimera Shot as well as encouraging more Steady Shots for it.

Wild Quiver's favor:

1. Better with a weapon that has disproportional-to-your-gear higher dps. If your weapon is about on par with your gear, Imp. SS is more dps, but this can be useful to know occasionally.

2. Requires no mana, but also saves no mana. Not sure if the extra WQ procs will count for Viper aspect returns, but if it does that also counts in WQ's favor.

Edit: elaborated; the difference betweeen Imp. SS and WQ is gear-dependant. Also of note is that neither has an internal cooldown. TL;DR - Wild Quiver lacks talent synergy and Imp. Steady Shot is marginally more dps on average, unless you didn't pick up all the good talents.

Comment by 230590

to answer for pvp, it is fairly useful to have

its much better than imp steady since if you are doing any serious pvp you wont simply be standing there like a turret, maybe pause half a second to get those extra autos in

the shot is nature damage, not physical and knowing majority of pvp is littered with paladins, dks, warriors, druids and shamans, all of which are capable of having rediculously high armor... and if you arent going in mostly pve gear, you wont have much armor pen either, so you may see the wild quiver hitting much harder than your autos at times

only downside is RNG, if it does proc along side a chimera shot, it would be pretty huge or just be the little extra to finish someone off... or it could proc when you dont need it at all, but imo i find its not hard to have the spare points for in a MM pvp spec

Comment by 337131

Seems that there is no internal cd on Wild Quiver. I tested it on the training dummies, and more than once, i had 2 procs within 3 seconds of eachother.

Links

Wild Quiver

Wild Quiver

Talent

You have a 12% chance to shoot an additional shot when doing damage with your auto shot, dealing 80% weapon nature damage. Wild Quiver consumes no ammo.

(Proc chance: 12%)

Spell Details

Duration

n/a

School

Physical

Mechanic

n/a

Dispel type

n/a

GCD category

n/a

Cost

None

Range

0 yards (Self)

Cast time

Instant

Cooldown

n/a

GCD

0 seconds

Aura proc chance

12%

Effect #1

Apply Aura: Proc Trigger Spell (1)
Value: 10
PVP Multiplier: 1

	Wild Quiver Auto Shot

Affected Spells:

Multi-Shot	Multi-Shot	Multi-Shot
Multi-Shot	Multi-Shot	Multi-Shot
Multi-Shot	Multi-Shot

Effect #2

Apply Aura: Consume No Ammo
Value: 1
PVP Multiplier: 1
Affected Spells:

	Wild Quiver Auto Shot

Flags

Wild Quiver

Buff

Spell Details

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